Abbey: [00:00:00] All the anger had gone away. And instead, I felt reflective of my own behavior contributing to the divorce very greatly, and then that was my sadness coming up. I cried nonstop for about a month or two
Tamara: I’ve been through this whole healing process. And I know, so have you. It’s funny causeI’m just thinking about when we’re in Melbourne together and you [00:03:00] nonchalantly mentioned your ex-husband. I was like, what? You were married?
I never knew that you know, so. Yeah. It was a whirlwind experience for you and you’ve gone through a lot, right?
Abbey: [00:03:16] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, many people don’t realize, um, I’ve gone through a lot and, uh, I think cause you know, they think I’m Asian and I think I look so young and you know, I did marry young. I mean I met my husband when I was 18 years old. We were at uni together in London and we spent 10 years together growing up together, going through the best time of our lives, graduating and I moved to Malaysia with him. And then, yeah, look, you know, we married, around when I was about 23, 24 and it was too young, but at the point, I was like, there’s no one else I would ever love, you know?
And he felt the same from the moment he saw me. He said, [00:04:00] the moment he knew me, he said, you’re the one I’m going to marry you. It was very Love at first sight for him. He’s very romantic and he’s still the best person I know.
And I love you bringing up this topic because I just, it’s part of the healing process to talk about it.
The thing is, I never talked about it with anyone, cause I was like, I’m here and I’m in Australia. I’m having a really good time. But all of that was also a distraction. I feel like I use that to work really hard, to absorb in a completely different life and friends. And when no one knows me, you know, to just start again.
And I think the beauty of, feeling like you’ve failed, as I was saying earlier is that you kind of rebirth yourself to so many more opportunities. And I think that’s exactly what you’ve done with your breakup. And of course, I’ve been there for you
Tamara: [00:04:51] Yea, you know what, I remember that night like it was yesterday. You [00:05:00] remember you were trying to get me off the floor. I was dying. I felt like I was dying. I’ve lost a piece of my heart in that moment
Abbey: [00:05:07] Yeah. I mean I saw the pain and I could feel it. And I just knew because I was there at the beginning of your relationship. I saw it blossom and I saw it deepen.
And you know how you both just became so close in this amazing honeymoon love so far heights ahead of you, you know, traveling the world and spending time in London. And you know, I thought you would spend the rest of your lives together. Being there at the same time to see that end. I mean the devastation and the kind of, it was just so…
And I felt for you. I think, cause I’ve been through it, but with me, it was probably not actually as painful cause yours was so abrupt and it was ripping off the plaster. It’s still very fresh. Whereas mine was like over 10 years, by that time, you’re like, [00:06:00] you kind of get over that romance and you can’t live without them kind of stage. You want to live without them, you know?
But yeah, I mean, the healing is continuous. You know, seven years now I’ve lived in Australia. We finally got divorced last year. He’s met someone, he’s had a baby, he’s married. But even when I found out, when he told me last year. Well, I found out from a friend that he proposed. I still went mental and I’ve never had therapy from this but, I’d say the healing process is going to be lifelong. Initially it was a distraction. And then finally I started to come to terms with it by stopping. As soon as you stop drinking and stop Netflix and stop partying and stopping all that, it comes and it took a lot of spiritual practice.
I’m a [00:07:00] bit of a fan of the old, you know, meditation retreat and 10 days vipassana and I’m going
Tamara: [00:07:08] you went to one of those silent retreats too, right?
Abbey: [00:07:11] Yeah. That was just after you come to visit me in Melbourne.
Tamara: [00:07:15] That was 10 days or
Abbey: [00:07:17] Yeah, it was 10 days in blue mountains and I came back to Sydney and that was my first one. And the funny thing is I wanted to do that for years, but I never had the chance cause I worked and you can’t really take that time off work, but the beauty of me is I kind of worked really hard for a couple of years and I stopped for a few months and that gives me the time in between to reset, but that really helps.
But that time I felt anger, anger for my husband, my ex-husband. And then recently I did it last year. And last year I felt guilt and repentance. All the anger had gone away and instead, I felt reflective of my own behavior [00:08:00] contributing to the divorce very greatly. And that, and then that was my sadness coming. I cried nonstop for about a month or two.
Tamara: [00:08:09] So before that relationship that you’ve lived through with me, I’ve also been in like a seven-year relationship. And that, that was a very rocky relationship for me. And I felt that when we finally. Actually, I think it was me moving to Australia that finally ended that relationship because we were always very on and off.
And I think within that relationship, I was very over it. By the time I moved to Australia, I was done.I was completely done with it. But it was seven years of heart healing and heartbreak, hard healing, and heartbreak. And I think my relationship in Australia. Granted, it was only a two-year relationship, the healing [00:09:00] process is still happening to this day. So it’s been two years since we’ve been together. And I remember talking to a friend when we just broken- up, because it’s the first thing you asked your friends is how long is this going to take me? How long until I’m over this?How long until I don’t feel the pain anymore?
It is gut-wrenching. And I remember feeling it. I remember traveling and being excited, seeing the world, but still, there was that pain in the pit of my heart. And just always just praying for peace. Give me peace, give me strength.I would repeat it over and over again.
And then the other day I was, I was thinking about how I was feeling. How I was feeling now, two years later, that that relationship is over. And to this day I still kind of learning lessons from it. It’s like the clouds are still lifting, you know, [00:10:00] I’m still learning a lot from that relationship.
And I’m still healing. Granted, yes, I don’t think about him every day, but there are still times where I think about a good thing to happen and it was a really good relationship, but it’s weird because the seven-year relationship after I was fully done, I was done but this one, two years later, how can I still be healing?
And I wonder another two years from now will I still be healing and thinking about it? It’s just, it’s crazy how long the process is, but you learn so many lessons in that time.
Abbey: [00:10:40] Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And it comes to the point where, you know, I relate to you. Like I still think of Kent. I still think of the wonderful qualities in him. You know, when I assess a guy now and it’s like, okay, does he have the kindness? Does he have the values? You know, the genuine, the [00:11:00] authenticity. And I think instead of maybe healing, maybe it’s as you’re right, it’s learnings. The only way we learn is if we fall and we try and we make mistakes over again.
And I feel, you know, when I first came here, I dated really awful guys thinking I want the opposite of what I had. And then I come to realize afterward, it was like, no, what I had was perfect, but I had to adjust myself for that. It wasn’t that they weren’t right for me. Or that they were bad qualities in a person or that they were particularly bad it’s because I needed to mature myself. And I feel like leveraging all of those breakups as a learning curve, like the whole repentance thing of my second Vipassana, it was just really eye-opening for me. Never have, I’ve cried so much in mourning [00:12:00] and I was like, wow, it took me five or six years to feel safe enough and awake and conscious enough to finally feel the pain.
And begin the so-called healing, but I couldn’t do it in the city. I couldn’t ever do it. I had to sit still for 10 days in blue mountains in silence where no one knew me in order to feel safe and vulnerable enough to feel those emotions.
Tamara: [00:12:24] Didn’t we have a conversation about this, you know, because you’ve gone through that marriage and everything. I think when we chatted about it didn’t you say you never, you don’t really want to get married again or, or something like that. It’s hard to move on from something like that when you’re not fully healed or you’re not ready.
Abbey: [00:12:54] Yeah. Yeah. You’re spot on because seven years later and I’m not even dating [00:13:00] this year. I’ve decided to not date. And last year I barely dated and I just I’ve just had enough and I feel like I need to work on myself and I want to dedicate this time to my business, my personal growth, my health, mental and emotional tendencies.
So I do all these personality quizzes and the more I learn about myself, the better I can be to my future partner. Looking back, I was angry and erratic and cold, and I never allowed myself vulnerability or, you know, I never surrendered. I have to balance my feminine and masculine and be calmer. And I think that comes with age.
So yeah, no, I still seven years on, I mean, it was a 10-year relationship. And before that I added two and a half year relationship. So to be fair, since I was 16, I’d [00:14:00] never really been alone. So for once, now I’m 33 and I finally live alone as well. And I’m starting to really enjoy solitude.
Tamara: [00:14:11] Yeah, girl with me and you’re in the same boat.
I’m the same way. You know, I just turned 33. I’m finally living alone and, and I enjoy it because it’s the same. I have been in a relationship for most of my life. I’m not a dater. I don’t date at all but I think the last couple of months is the most single I have been in my entire life.
Abbey: [00:14:42] we’re always so in tune. It’s amazing. It’s great though. I like this podcast. I hope it reaches, you know, many women out there because I don’t know if it’s because there’s some others who haven’t been [00:15:00] in such long term relationships, but I still have girlfriends that are torn by men and dating constantly two, three men at a time. The second they reject them, they get this fall into a deep hole of depression and sadness and look at their phone.
And I just think to be on your own for a while, if you ever feel that way, just, you know, sit in solitude and there’s, I feel so empowered.
Tamara: [00:15:26] I agree with, this is the best time and sad to say it, this Coronavirus just came at a good time because one, I’m not talking to anyone. Like I’m not talking to any men.
Besides like my friends. I spent what three months in my apartment by myself. I did not hate it. In fact, I enjoyed it and I’m able to work on the things that I want to work. I don’t necessarily sit around and watch Netflix.
You know, I’ve been reading a lot more. Yeah, I’ve been working on these projects and I want to focus on myself and I want to work on myself. I’ve been doing a lot of internal work and, I think it’s my way of preparing myself for the next guy that finally comes along because I do want to be the best version of me for anyone who deserves to be in a relationship with me.
You know, I don’t want to go into something and there’s still a lot of internal issues or baggage that I’m dealing with and something that, that person like a burden, I don’t want to put on someone else. So I think you’re right, you know, this time is really about reflecting and getting ourselves together.
Abbey: [00:16:47] Yeah, you’re spot on because you know, the last year I’ve been talking to a guy and he’s just perfect and I hate to use that word cause I know no one’s perfect, but he ticks all the boxes. [00:17:00] I introduced something in my dating called the eight-date rule, and however, that’s kind of transcended to like 10 to 15 dates to the actual friends zone and, um, this guy, like he just, he was driven is ambitious is really, you know, he really helps me supports me with my business and really wants me to do well.
And. I just, you know, I just kept this kind of distance and I just know that if I was to get involved with him now, I would, I might put my business aside or I might start not having time to do all the things, all the books I want to read, all the work I want to do, you know, I’m not ready yet because if I find someone amazing now that I want to spend the rest of my life, you know, that’s the next 40 years.
Tamara: [00:17:47] Yeah.
Abbey: [00:17:48] It’s only a short period we get to be alone.
Tamara: [00:17:51] Relationships are a lot of work. It’s literally like having another job and to, you know sustain a [00:18:00] relationship. Yes, When you first start out, you know, you go through that honeymoon phase but once reality sets in, you just realize how much work it is and you really need to be prepared to invest the time and the energy for that.
That’s why I think it is important. I know people who have been in relationships all their life and they haven’t had that time alone and they need that time to really. Work on their selves and just have those selfish moments in life and you know what that’s another thing that I’m trying to do.
And you know, I’m going to be selfish because when I find someone I have to think about someone else.
Abbey: [00:18:51] Oh, I agree. I agree. Because you know, if you can’t love yourself, you can’t love anyone else. And I said [00:19:00] to this guy, I said, even if I am in a relationship, I can only see.
Someone max once a week. And I can’t text every day. I could only do it twice a week. You know, I can’t just text all day long, I’ve got a business to run.
Tamara: [00:19:16] it’s like and I’m that type of person in a relationship. I have to make sure that what I’m doing like this podcast, for example, I need to make sure that it is in the right place before I even entertain a guy because I am that person that will get completely lost in a man.
Hang out on the weekends, spend like the whole weekend with each other. And I haven’t done any work. I haven’t had anything for myself. Even when I used to work, I’ve lived with my ex-boyfriends and I’d go to work and I’d be so anxious to get out of work, to come home and be with them and spend time with them. And a lot of [00:20:00] times I realized all the things, all the other activities I wanted to do after work, I didn’t do because I wanted to come home and be in my relationship.
Abbey: [00:20:10] And a lot of women myself included you just. I with my husband, I just completely revolved my entire life around him, you know?
And when we broke up, I was like, no, towards the years where we broke up, I said no, I’m going to focus on me now. I’ve dedicated what seems like a lifetime to you and now I want to build for me and do something for me. .
Tamara: [00:20:35] And now for a short break.
Abbey: [00:21:02] I feel like the divorce, you know, it hasn’t hardened me, you know, breakups. They don’t harden you up, but you know, I’m still at that point. I know that I need to allow more vulnerability and be a bit softer and have more self-awareness. I did the Enneagram test last week and it’s like
Tamara: [00:21:25] what are you.
Abbey: [00:21:27] Oh, you know it, so I’m an 8
Tamara: [00:21:29] It’s funny cause I also did it last week too. So it’s like this new thing that it’s just popping up everywhere.
Abbey: [00:21:37] It’s like MeyerBriggs. I mean, it’s been around for years, but I think that kind of thing, I really love like the Meyer Briggs, the personality tests, because I know that an eight is a challenger and it’s like dominant and powerful and you know, wants to do that. They’re the protector. They want to do good and that drives them. But I feel like to be better in [00:22:00] relationships in the future, if I were to get in one or to train myself, maybe I’ll set a timeline at 35, 36. I would understand myself and have more self-awareness and a much deeper level.
And then use these kinds of tools to almost like, you know, being a manager and being in leadership, you know, how do people want to be treated? How do people like to be spoken to, you know, and use that on my partner and future, I think would be..
Tamara: [00:22:27] Yeah, that’s really important. I’ve been reading a lot of these are like books that cause my brother is married and we talk about these things and he’s been sharing some of the books that he’s been reading.
And one book that he has shared with me is called How We Love. I’m still in the process of reading it. And I even bought a workbook that goes along with the book. Funny, I’ve had it for like maybe three months and I haven’t. Open the workbook yet, but it’s [00:23:00] basically it’s for couples.
It addresses early life experiences and how that acts as a blueprint that shapes your behaviors in your relationships. It looks at injured imprints that can trap couples based off of how we’re raised and how that affects us as adults, like how it affects our communication style for example. Based off of how our parents raised us in the household. And I think a lot of couples fail to realize that and fail to be a bit more empathetic towards each other because they’re just used to what they’re used to growing up.
And they put those same expectations on you. And I think the worst thing in a relationship is to have expectations or like high expectations. And so this book really helps you to understand your life. Your communication style, and also look to your [00:24:00] partner to understand their communication style, the same way with the seven languages of love.
You really need to think about not just about yourself, but about your partner and how you can be the best partner for them. And don’t expect to treat them the same way you want to be treated. You know, you have to realize how they want to be treated because it can be completely different from you.
Abbey: [00:24:23] Yea, I agree. You know, these books and all of these, you know, learning quizzes and personalities, I feel like that, and there was a quote, you know, the best thing you can do for the world is to know about yourself and self-worth. So yeah, just continuing this path and yeah, if you have any more resources to send me on that, and it’s great because, you know, I was checked out the guy that I was talking to straight away, I picked up, you know, what my ex was.
I was like, okay, here’s the peacemaker. And actually eights and nines. Nine is a peacemaker that they get on really well. And these books, it shows you how you [00:25:00]should speak to them, how they like to be spoken to, and how they don’t like to be spoken to. I don’t know. It’s just like, this is fun. It was just so accurate. It’s like a guide to communication, you know? It’s like it doesn’t get any clearer than this. It’s just so simple
Tamara: [00:25:16] Do you ever find though, sometimes it is harder to take these tests because I read another book. This girl, she had all the different personality tests in the book and she said she was basically sometimes when it comes for us to answer the questions there is what the right answer is. And there’s the answer we want it to be. Not like we do it on purpose, but we’ll answer something based on what we want ourselves to be, as opposed to what we really are.
So it’s sometimes you even need to check in what your friends are. If you have a partner, do it with your partner and have them be like, Oh no, that’s not you. This seems more, more along [00:26:00] the lines of who you are, because it’s like you, you don’t want your mind to trick you to thinking, Oh, this is the type of person you are, but you’re not.
Abbey: [00:26:08] Oh, I mean, for sure. I was so dubious, you know. Some of these tests I’m like that, you know, that’s completely wrong. You know, that hasn’t got me now where even the Meyer Briggs. Some parts were very me and some parts were like, no, I wouldn’t say that. But with this one for a while now, I’ve been asking my friends and family a lot of feedback.
I’ve been so opened. I’ve been more open to it and you know, I’ve been asking them and even when they’re drunk, I’d be like, what am I doing? Am I doing something wrong? What’s my character like, what’s my one big thing that has really annoys you, you know, and to try and improve myself.
Tamara: [00:26:45] Yeah,
Abbey: [00:26:46] it comes up and the same things keep coming up and it’s, self-awareness, it’s being vulnerable, it’s allowing other people to make the decision, you know, being less [00:27:00] kind of domineering and trying to control everything, like being a control freak.
And I was like, okay, okay. So I’ve written down in my list of these things to read up more and one is also balanced. And it’s so spot-on, like I go all or nothing. It’s always full turbo mode and then write down. Reading the Enneagram, like number eight, all of the things that my friends have given me feedback on was in that. In the things that I should improve on in those books. In a way, I was like this is just too accurate.
Tamara: [00:27:42] And I think that’s really, that’s actually really good of you to ask your friends for feedback on you. People, we don’t necessarily do that. And I think it really is important because even after my last relationship, I don’t remember if I told you but he said a lot.
About [00:28:00] me and, you know, put me through this really negative self-loathing spiral of myself, you know? And afterward, what I read, I was like, I questioned myself and my character. And so I remember going to my friends you know, am I this person? Am I this bad? Am I? And it was just like, It was crazy, but a lot of friends were like, no, like they couldn’t agree with everything that was said in that way.
But I think as human beings, it is important for us to get feedback from other people because sometimes we’re not aware of ourselves, we can think we’re something, but we might be displaying other things. You really made a really good point that. You know, we have to reach out for that feedback.
If we’re asking people to tell us about ourselves, you have to be fully ready to accept everything they say the good and the bad, because sometimes it’s just hard for us to [00:29:00] take any sort of negative feedback and it’s not negative to hurt you. You know we want to try and make you better.
Abbey: [00:29:10] For sure. And that’s why I think I’m asking is really important because, you know, we’re used to only getting feedback when people are critical or are angry with us. Actually, for me, It’s like my own KPI performance sheet, but the more I learned about myself, the more I note down all the qualities in me that need a bit of, you know, tweaking. Well, I can be better for my friends, my family, my partners.
And so I openly, but the thing is you’re right because I’m this very confrontational and like you, I’m very in this spiritual self-development personality. But a lot of people I’ve noticed like friends cause they’re like INFs or they’re more introverted and any feedback they get they’re [00:30:00] crushed and they are, they constantly, you know, live in fear of hurting someone’s feelings. Whereas my take is like, no, tell me straight. I just want honesty. So I kind of collate all the things that my old bosses, my old colleagues, my you know, and the thing is if people are tiptoeing around you all the time, that you’ll never, you never learn how to improve. And because I know that I’m the dominant personality, people might be too intimidated to tell me.
Yeah. Or when they go and share something that someone has upset them, I will say things like if I ever did anything like that, you would tell me to my face. Please tell me. Because I have lived away from family in a different country since I was 18, my mom and dad don’t see me all the time.
They can’t nag me about things. So you’re reliant as an ex-pat, especially you as well, reliant on your friends to actually give you that feedback. You know and stay grounded. [00:31:00] It’s so nice to bounce off each other and learn off each other, like the power of a conversation. And this in itself is so healing, just like being able to. It’s like therapy.
Yeah,
Tamara: [00:31:15] it is therapy. I agree. This has been so enriching and, you know, thank you so much for being a part of this and sharing your story. In this conversation alone I’ve learned a lot about you. I’ve learned a lot about myself…
And I think, you know, It would be very beneficial for listeners to also kind of see how we dealt with our relationships and if they’re going through the same sort of long term relationships or breakups, you know, or divorce or [00:32:00] anything like that, how, how they can deal with it.
Abbey: [00:32:03] Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like everyone has their own kind of dealing mechanism and everyone has awareness of, you know, their own learnings and, you know, what’s happened from it. Like mine’s been very distraction and then assessment and acceptance, and then, you know, real, real kind of self-reflection.
Tamara: [00:32:28] and it’s important to know, It’s not, it’s not a, a short cause people think, Oh my God, I should be over it by now. Or, you know, It takes years to fully heal, or sometimes you just, you’re never a hundred percent healed. It’s not in an I’m constantly hurting type of way. It’s like, you know, there’s learned a lesson and it just created this different piece of me and who I am as a person. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
Abbey: [00:32:58] For sure. And I don’t even know [00:33:00] if I’ve healed. I mean, seven years on, I’m still single and I still, I can’t hold down any kind of dating or relationship for over three months and my heart’s closed. It’s like I’m too traumatized to ever be in love again. You know that no, I need more vulnerability. I need to accept that I can be weak and I can be hurt.
Um, but I’m just too scared to feel that
Abbey: [00:33:25] there will be a day where it, hopefully, I’ll be strong enough to, um, to love again, um, over time, I think when it comes to the 10-year mark. I will be like, look, you know, come on Abby. It’s time to try harder.
Tamara: [00:33:45] You’ll get there. I trust that you will. You know, things happen when they’re supposed to happen. Everything on our own time.
Abbey: [00:33:53] Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Tamara: [00:33:55] This has just been amazing. Thank you so much.
If you’d like to read more, check out my post on Getting Over Heartbreak and Finding Yourself.
As always, if you need to talk, feel free to leave a comment here, drop me a DM, or head to the Facebook group. And tune into the podcast to listen to more conversations!
Lots of love xx